Canon XL-1

[CrawlingKaos]

Is this the camera most indy directors use? I am really impressed with the quality of the picture on these. I think Full Frontal and a few Hollywood movies were made using these cams. I heard if you want to get a film look through these, you need some kind of lens hook-up so you can use 35 mm lenses and such.
So what are you guys using? I plan on making a short film just for the hell of doing one. I have a JVC camcorder but I can shot it in black and white and make it look like it was made shot in a wide screen format .. but I suppose I could do all those things in post production.

[DAD]

The use of 35mm lenses on an XL1 is pretty much a moot point for making it look like 35mm film. Everything is done in post using digital filters and such to add film grain and gate scratches. The only real draw back to the XL1 is that is almost impossible to do a rack focus. I understand the XL1s has solved this problem though.

If you shoot on a consumer grade DV camera do not use the 16x9 format. Do a masking in post with what ever editing software you use. Also, shoot in color and make it B/W in post. You never know when you might want a color version of your film and it's better for lifting publicity stills.

[CrawlingKaos]

Thanks for the info 'DAD'. Let me ask you, cuz I don't know how true this is, but I hear the canons are pretty heavy and won't work on a glidecam or steadycam. Heard these stories from various people but don't know if there is any truth to it.

[DAD]

You cannot use the consumer version of SteadyCam with the XL1, it is to heavy. You have to go with the SteadyCam Jr. which is the next step up but also a big jump in price. Something to note is that teh XL1 is nicely balanced and because of it's weight you can get pretty good shoulder shots without a steadycam system. I've used this camera quite a bit and have pretty much nothing but good things to say about it.

[CrawlingKaos]

thanks for the info Dave. It seems to me -getting back to the lenses and such- that it would benefit the director to get the lens hookup. From my limited 'knowledge' of such things .. and i do mean limited- it seems the only thing you can change in post is the texture of a picture maybe the lightness and colors and such. Can't make a picture clearer in post, and the lenses effect the focal point and overall look of the film. Would you agree with this? Keep in mind I'm very new to this, to call me a novice would be a compliment!
Guess I should have posted this under 'equipment' ...

[DAD]

From what I have seen most indies and pros that use the XL1 use the standard zoom that comes with it and the optional wide angle. Both are excellent lenses and have very good depth of field. The problem with the 35mm hookup is that you loose ALL of the auto features built into the cannon lenses and that pretty much defeats using the camera for anything other than fixed focus shots. Trust me, you can do a lot with the lenses that are designed for use with the XL1. If you want to take the time and hand build some lever attachments and ring scales that can be mounted around the lense you can even do a rack focus with the standard lense. (It's a real pain in the bu^^ and takes two people and a lot of practice to get it to look right though.)

Also, most people don't even use the 16x9 format that is built into the camera. What most people do is put a 16x9 or 185:1 (academy format) mask on the viewing monitor and frame the shot that way so that the wide sceen mask is added in post.

As for focus. Actually if you have some high end software you can even play with this in post. I've seen it done.

[CrawlingKaos]

thanks once again David! I've already made up my mind that if I do get serious and want to buy or either rent a camera, it will be the canon Xl1 Ive shown this post to a friend who has had experience with these cams and pretty much agrees with what you have just said.

[Raym]

The XL-1 is a cool one.
I'm using a Sony PD-100.
The results are interesting (in a good way).
I chose this camera after liking what I saw in the film Personal Velocity.

[CrawlingKaos]

not that I know what the hell I'm talking about ... cuz I really don't .. It seems to me the sony cams PD100 and 150 are meant to be prosumer cams whereas the Canons has always been a professional's choice. I also hear that you need to get alot of adaptations for the Sony cams to get a professional look but in the end they are like 1000 dollars cheaper than Canons.
Is that what you used for Nundead? Looks impressive, very sharp and clear.

[DAD]

yes, the PD100 and 150 are prosumer cameras as are the Cannon Gl1 and 2. The XL1 is almost a gray area camera that is almost Pro but still considered to be a prosumer camera. The only MAJOR difference that sets the XL1 and XL1s apart from the others is the interchangable lense system. In fact the old Sony VX1000 camera was test against a base XL1 unit and it helds its own for image quality to the XL1. So when you get down to it, for image quality the VX2000, PD100/150 are probably right on par with XL1. In fact some of the reality cop shows have switched over to the PD100/150's because of their size and weight. I still favor the XL1's but I would have no qualms about shotting a Lo/No budget feature with a Sony prosumer camera. They are da&m good cameras.

[pslugworth]

I strongly advise against simply putting a mask on in post to get a wide-screen effect.

When you use the wide-screen mode in professional DV cameras, it actually compresses the image size and then expands it when you transfer it to your editing software or whatever. Simply putting black bars on the top and bottom of the frame will lessen the potential image quality.

[DAD]

What I mean by putting a mask on the image is not placing black bars on the image. Many editing software packages allow you to place a formating frame over the image and select the portion you want to be placed into the 16x9 output. This allows for great flexiblity in editing.

[pslugworth]

Well, yes, but you're still getting a lower resolution...

It's cropping a 4x3 image to fit a 16x9 ratio instead of shooting in a 16x9 ratio and getting the full image initially.

It might be easier to manipulate and edit afterwards, but you'll be losing a slight bit of quality doing so...

[DAD]

miniDV transfers at 720x480 regardless if the format shot on the camera is 4x3 or 16x9. Everyone I know using miniDV shoots in 4x3 and crops in the edit process. The 16x9 done in camera is software interpolation not hardware. So it makes little difference if you do it in camera or in edit, the resolution remains the same. You don't get into a true 16x9 hardware format until you step up to a DV or HD camera system. Then it can make a difference.

[CrawlingKaos]

Do you guys know anything about the panasonic dvx100 ... I think that's right. Prosumer cam but high def and the closest thing I have personally seen a dv cam get to looking like it was shot on film.