Mercury?

[mandor700]

Does anyone know of any non-toxic substance i could use as a substatute for mercury?

[DAD]

This is really tough and unless you are going to be using it on a persons skin, about the only thing you can use is mercury. Most of the 'mercury' fx you see in films these days are done digitally. It's a tough thing to fake for the camera.

[AJ]

Ouch!

I wouldn't even think about using actual mercury to do your shot, its dangerous stuff.

Its widely documented that exposure to mercury and other toxic metals causes a variety of neurological and birth defects such as autism, dyslexia, schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, asthma, eczema... and a bunch more. Keep clear of that!

What is your planned shot/sequence to consist of?

I might be able to help you with some CG, but it really depends on what you're looking to achieve.

John

[mandor700]

I want to have a character walk into a house and find it spreading out from gaps in the floor (Dead hatter bearied under floorboards) i also want a castmember to slip and fall in and get it all over himself.

I found some wax that when melted looks rather like mercury but it wouldnt really be possible for such a large scene.

I do know however that it is possible to use real mercury in places with extremely good ventolation as the mercury itself is not toxic in liquid form but in gas. But because this scene will be inside i dont really want the huge cost of getting all the ventolation equipment.

[DAD]

Vapors are the worst, but mercury can be absorbed through the skin after prolonged exposure. If you plan on having the person rolling in it ... not a good idea to use real mercury. Since you want interaction with the character, doing it digitally would probably be prohibitive since you'd have to do a LOT of match moving to try and work it with a live actor. Good luck, this is a real tough one.

David

[mandor700]

yea and i cant use the wax with people either for obvious reasons. (im not paying them enough, infact im not paying them at all)

[AJ]

Sounds like you need to either re-work your idea, or plan your shots carefully to minimise the problems of matching movements etc.

Doing it in CG, it would be fairly straightforward to do the seeping shots, but the character stuff would need to be mostly offscreen.

A simplistic version of the 'Matrix' scene wouldn't be too difficult to pull off, if you make the actual 'covering' mostly off-screen.

John

[mandor700]

Yea, I've contacted a chemist and he has informed me that it is possible and have found a place to supply the Imercury for the seeping scene (baisically pour it on a specially constructed floor and shoot in reverse) we will use real mercury for that scene and the shot of the actor walking into the house and along the hall with the mercury (as the actor will be wearing boots) we will use alot of fans and a skeleton crew for these shots.

For the shot of the actor slipping I will use a close up of the face and do it digitally, then with the shots of him after he has got up i will use chrome paint mixed with very viscus gell.

I hope it will work any suggestions will be much appreaciated.

[AJ]

Mandor700,

I don't want to keep going on about this, but mercury is dangerous stuff, I really think you should be faking this effect rather than trying to use the real thing.

I mean, how will you be disposing of the mercury after the shoot? How would you clean it up? If that gets into the soil or waste systems in your town...

It is toxic stuff, and really it's not necessary to take such risks just for a movie.

If you check up on it, seems like they even send someone to to collect just the small amount from a few thermometers!

web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/chemwaste/mercury.htm

You seem to be planning to use a much larger amount than that, have you checked with your local waste agency?

I really can't imagine you will be able to safely contain a large amount of this stuff, how are you planning to mop it up? In a sponge??

Really, seriously, as filmmakers we contribute enough damage to the environment as it is, from processing chemicals and other waste from the development process. I think you need to reconsider this plan.

That's my $0.02 worth, obviously you seem set to do this.

[sightsunseen]

I agree with the "DO NOT USE MERCURY" responses to this post thus far.

You'd have the best results with CGI for this effect and no danger whatsoever.

If you can't get someone to do this for you then rethink doing it at all...one injury and you're in for the lawsuit of a lifetime.

The local environment council would love to hear that untrained people are playing with Mercury and would be more than willing to fine you enough to clean up 10x the area of a spill or 1 square mile, whichever is more...this is due to the fact that they will be fining you for directly affecting the water table. DOH!

That's just from the local agencies mind you...
the acting talent could be made comfortable by their lawsuit as well since no waiver out there is going to protect you...I'm assuming that you are not a licensed or educated chemist, and if you were, there would be even less excuses for performing this feat.

CGI isn't always the answer...but this time it is.

[DAD]

I too have to take the stand of not using Mercury under any circumstances. All of the health and legal issues make this far to volitile to even attempt using the real stuff. Using a small amount in a controlled enviroment is one thing but this sounds like it's going to be gallons of it used in someones house ... that's pretty stupid. You are asking for nothing but problems. Rethink this BIG TIME!!! Find another solution or drop the plan all together. Have you considered making it more of a seeping slime? This could easily be done with corn starch and water with food coloring to make it colorful. You shoot it seeping away and then just flip the footage to make it appear. This stuff can be safely used on actors too ... it's edible!

[mandor700]

We intend to do the hall shot with a specially constructed floor which will be disposed of safely after the shoot. The floor will be constructed to allow the mercury and has a special coating to prevent absorbtion of any chemicals, underneath the floor will be a special collection system. The chemist will be supervising the entire effect and he informs me that this is enough for me to obtain a permit.

The cost is going to be relativly high though so I'm still looking for other obtions (The permit is going to take a while to get, you know how beauracracies are).

[DAD]

Good luck. Just remember the first rule of film making (murphy's law) "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong." I still think for a low budget film the risk is to great to justify doing the effect. One problem and one accident and that chemist will suddenly become a material witness.

Take care and I wish you well.

[sightsunseen]

You know...
for all the trouble this is about to cause you
(I say it like it's already happened because you
might as well brace yourself, I work full time with
chemists and if one is willing to do this, he's not
very smart)...you'd show what a good filmmaker
you are by avoiding it and getting a great shot
anyway.

Heading straight into harm's way both for yourself
and your cast/crew doesn't show anyone how good
you are no matter how the shot comes out...it just
lets everyone know that they probably shouldn't
work with you because of this habit.

but go ahead.
I'll guarantee that the shot isn't worth it.
And with all the bucks you're about the shell out
for this...you could purchase a pretty nice CGI rig
that'll come in handy for a long time.

[mandor700]

Yikes, I've just found out how much the mercury will cost. so i'm gonna look at doing it a different way. I'm gonna try and find a liquid with a suitibal viscousness to mix with the chroma and try and do it that way.

I, still dont think doing it digitally will work mainly because of the complex ripples/bubbling that will be involved.